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Author Topic: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?  (Read 1961 times)

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JustAnotherSquid

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Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« on: April 01, 2021, 02:11:36 PM »

Hi all,

What exactly are the benefits of upgrading the MC to something like a Brembo?  The brakes on my Gixxer are powerful, firm, and easy to modulate (Vesrah pads with SS lines), but I get inconsistencies with the actuation point.  Sometimes as frequently as from one corner to the next.  It's not the end of the world but it's something I'd like to fix if I could.  (My Beemer has always done it too but I just assumed it was a quirk of the ABS system.)

I know upgrading the MC is a common thing on Gixxers - would it help with the inconsistent actuation?

Thanks for any insight you have to offer!
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RocketDan

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Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2021, 08:09:23 PM »

A different MC should give you a better feeling at the lever.

Also make sure you are using good brake fluid. Mogul RBF 600 is a popular choice. It works well with the heat generated under track conditions. Cheap fluid can heat up too much and could cause inconsistencies in the braking system.

Daniel Hughes
2015 R1
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 08:16:56 PM by RocketDan »
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JustAnotherSquid

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2021, 12:30:38 PM »

Thanks RocketDan.  It has Brembo brake fluid in it now.  Do you happen to know where that falls on a scale from "Eh, it's fine but consider using RBF 600 next time" to "You idiot!  Do you also drink bleach??? Get that crap out of there right now!"?

« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 12:32:32 PM by JustAnotherSquid »
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RocketDan

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2021, 01:13:10 PM »

I’m not too familiar with the Brembo fluid but looks
like they make a few different levels. So it would depend on which you are running. Brembo LCF600 looks comparable in heat resistance to the Motul RBF600. The main think is the heat resistance level of the fluid.

Also, make sure the brakes are bled really good. Any air at all can easily find its way out in a track environment. And fresh fluid at least every season.


Daniel Hughes
2015 R1
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JustAnotherSquid

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2021, 01:36:49 PM »

Heard and understood.  It does have fresh LCF600 in it and all new bleeder valves.  I'll check everything again.
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RocketDan

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2021, 03:26:57 PM »

If everything is in order and you still don’t like the feeling then a new MC is probably in order. I mention the other items because a new MC doesn’t help much if you have bad fluid or a little air in the line. To get all the air out of my lines I usually bleed the brakes until I can’t get anymore air out. Then I put a rubber band around the lever and leave it over night. Never fail more air comes out in the morning. Not enough to cause a failure, but enough that I’m sure it could cause some inconsistent action. But enough of my harping on air and fluid.... LOL

Brakes are arguably the most important component, so make sure they work how you want them to. If you don’t have confidence when you hit the brakes then you will only be able to go so fast. There is a reason most people change their MC, so if your budget allows don’t be afraid to give a Brembo a try. Good chance it will feel better to you and help you be more confident in the braking zones.


Daniel Hughes
2015 R1
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JustAnotherSquid

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2021, 05:02:48 AM »

You've laid out a clear path forward.  I'm going to get the current system working as good as I'm able, and then put a MC on the Upgrade Wishlist for this winter.  Thanks RocketDan.
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52 Ruhe

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Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2021, 02:43:58 PM »

An aftermarket master is a pretty broad category.
A simple 19/18 , RCS will help to a point. Billet / CNC or better Brembo master or Galespeed Etc. Will make braking low effort at lever for maximum force at caliper. They modulate better and provide a higher degree of feel.
The higher end models with give you a greater level of consistency. Beyond that some models build in ease of maintaining or better placed bleed circuits

Do you need it? Your call. The higher degree of force for lower effort at the lever I get with the unit I run it’s worth it over the day.
Brembo makes good fluid but if I recall it’s on the $$$$$ side. As often as you should be running fresh clean fluid through. Motul or any spec fluid should be fine. Just don’t be shy about running fresh every so often.
Masters run from Stock all the way up to $10,000 units. I would love to be able to exploit what the hell ever a 10k master does but I simply ain’t that guy.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 12:18:47 PM by 52 Ruhe »
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JustAnotherSquid

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2021, 05:35:38 PM »

Thanks 52.  If I understand you correctly, your opinion is that the billet master cylinders are the sweet spot on the price/performance scale?  Something like this?

https://www.sportbiketrackgear.com/brembo-19mmx20mm-billet-cnc-race-radial-brake-master-cylinder-w-folding-lever/

Or this?

https://www.motodracing.com/accossato-19x20-billet-radial-brake-master-cylinder-cnc-worked-w-folding-lever-rst/


edit for posterity: on the WERA forums they said that those particular MCs were for street use, and that the breakdown is roughly as follows:

19x18 = track
19x20 = street
19 PRS (accossato) = track/street
19 RCS (brembo) = track/street

 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:10:46 AM by JustAnotherSquid »
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Viffer

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2021, 07:24:20 AM »

I find that even the entry level Brembo MkII GP master cylinder is a major upgrade from a stock GSX-R master cylinder.  Along with the Brembo RCS 19 or Corsa Corta.  Any of the above mentioned master cylinders provide more braking power that most track day guys can exploit the full capability of.  Also with the MkII starting at like $310.00 and the Corsa Corta 19 starting at $385 it is well worth the upgrade.  Just my 2 cents.  And besides the vendor at every PRE Trackday brings these Brembos to every trackday.

JustAnotherSquid

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2021, 05:57:01 AM »

I find that even the entry level Brembo MkII GP master cylinder is a major upgrade from a stock GSX-R master cylinder.  Along with the Brembo RCS 19 or Corsa Corta.  Any of the above mentioned master cylinders provide more braking power that most track day guys can exploit the full capability of.  Also with the MkII starting at like $310.00 and the Corsa Corta 19 starting at $385 it is well worth the upgrade.  Just my 2 cents.  And besides the vendor at every PRE Trackday brings these Brembos to every trackday.

Thanks Viffer.  I ordered an RCS19 the day before you posted this but next time I will check with you first.   :tiphat:

On a separate but related note, do you have a line on 11-20 GSX-R600/750 bodywork?  I can't find any anywhere.  I'd even get Hotbodies at this point, if I could find any.

Woodcraft said they will have more Armour Bodies in mid-May, so that's the best solution I have at the moment.
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52 Ruhe

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2021, 06:03:07 AM »

ionemoto. Sharkskins
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Mike Ruhe #52

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JustAnotherSquid

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2021, 07:03:51 AM »

Thanks for the tip 52!  Just got off the phone with them and they said end of May at the earliest.  If they'd had a set in stock I would have ordered it on the spot.   :thumbup:
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52 Ruhe

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2021, 07:05:02 AM »

Worth the wait IMHO
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Mike Ruhe #52

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theottergod

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Re: Benefits of upgraded master cylinder?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2021, 07:59:04 AM »

Thanks Viffer.  I ordered an RCS19 the day before you posted this but next time I will check with you first.   :tiphat:

On a separate but related note, do you have a line on 11-20 GSX-R600/750 bodywork?  I can't find any anywhere.  I'd even get Hotbodies at this point, if I could find any.

Woodcraft said they will have more Armour Bodies in mid-May, so that's the best solution I have at the moment.

I've got some AirTech fairings on the way for my RC51. They said about 4 weeks for production and 1 week to ship them from CA. I'll let you know what they're like when I get them. In the meantime for a quick fix it's worth looking at some (you guessed it) facebook groups/facebook marketplace to see if anyone has some fairings for sale. I'm in a Nc/Sc/Tn Motorcycles Sale/trade group and GSXR parts come through there on the reg.
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