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Author Topic: broken camshaft cleaning an engine  (Read 425 times)

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jsnonzzr

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broken camshaft cleaning an engine
« on: March 26, 2018, 08:10:03 PM »

so... skipping over the "HTF DID YOU BREAK A CAMSHAFT"  i keep getting asked, I have broken the cam shaft while reinstalling it.  This resulted in some metal crumbs and dust in the top end of my engine that I have done a decent job of cleaning out.   I currently see nothing while looking around the top of the engine.  The engine was never started but it was spun over by hand a few times before i realized the shaft was broken.   I have been given two pieces of advice and interested to see what this board of kind technical folks suggest.

1)  open oil plug. poor oil in the top to flush out anything that remains.  put a new shaft in, then poor more oil in to flush it again.  close the plug and fill it up again.  rock on.

2)  pull oil pan.  poor kerosene or diesel in the top end and flush the engine out.  clean the oil pickup tube and oil pan to make sure there is no debris.  close up the engine and add oil.   This method is supposedly a safer route to go so I dont chew up the oil pump.

If you have any direct experience with this or do lots of machining please say that as well.  its sometimes hard to sort the advice (sometimes good)  from a person who has been doing this for a while vs someone who picks up a wrench once or twice a  year.


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MillerAMG

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Re: broken camshaft cleaning an engine
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2018, 04:42:47 AM »

The only way to be 100% sure that there is no loose metal in the engine is to do a full tear down, clean all the oil passages, and inspect. What I would personally do is drop the oil pan, look for any other pieces(or glitter), poor oil through the head to help any other loose parts drop down, and inspect the pick up tube/screen. Considering the engine was turned over via starter, I would probably pull, clean, and inspect the oil pump for any scarring. If no scarring is found, then it's safe to assume there wasn't any chunks that got sucked into the lubrication system. Reassemble with assembly lube. Replace oil filter and put in some fresh oil. Turn the engine over by hand a few times before using the starter to make sure there isn't anything binding up. Turn engine over using starter a few times to prime the oil system. Then start her up. Run it for 15 min or so to make sure there's no odd noises. Ride the bike up and down the road a few times. Change the oil again and verify there isn't any glitter or flakes coming out of the engine. If it's a track bike, I'm sure you already change the oil after a track weekend. If used on the street, I would change the oil again in 100mi and check the condition of the oil.
 This is the type of procedure I've used in automotive/construction engines for the past 10 years. I'm sure Ruhe will chime in and knows a good answer with having tons of experience in motorcycles.
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Robert Miller

'13 Yamaha R1
Concord, NC

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Re: broken camshaft cleaning an engine
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2018, 05:06:52 AM »

What kind of bike it is I think is an important question. Used engines can be cheap depending on the answer to that question.
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jsnonzzr

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Re: broken camshaft cleaning an engine
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2018, 05:19:42 AM »

What kind of bike it is I think is an important question. Used engines can be cheap depending on the answer to that question.

Bike Is a ninja 300.  I checked already and eBay has them between 600 and 1k not counting shipping.
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jsnonzzr

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Re: broken camshaft cleaning an engine
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2018, 05:24:19 AM »

Miller.

Thank you for the response.   The engine was not turned via starter just by hand. Cranck was spun 360deg a few times to check timing then a few more when rechecking clearances before I realized what was going on.  I did clean as much as I could with a oil soaked paper towl and my manner on a stick.  I see no metal flake or chunks sitting anywhere in the top end.

Do you still think any potential metal could have gotten sucked into the oil pump if it was only turned by hand?

Thanks
Jason
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MillerAMG

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Re: broken camshaft cleaning an engine
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2018, 07:03:29 AM »

If the shaft broke during installation and the engine has only been turned over by hand, I highly doubt the oil pump was able to suck up any solid pieces. I wouldn't bother pulling the oil pump, but I would still drop the oil pan and make sure there aren't any pieces that could potentially be sucked up. Check the screen while you're there.  In a personal car(definitely not a customers), if I was willing to risk the motor, I would just leave the pan on and go through the rest of the steps. I would never risk an engine locking up on a motorcycle though. Motorcycle engines locking up while riding could end horribly/deadly depending on the situation.
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Robert Miller

'13 Yamaha R1
Concord, NC

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Re: broken camshaft cleaning an engine
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2018, 07:21:02 AM »

This is just me. Unless I can do a Quincy ME or CSI full reconstruction of Said cam shaft and account for every last piece of it. I am in full tear down rebuild / build of the motor.
I have seen motors fail with no issue other than all the Catholics get confused thinking “new pope” and I have seen motors shower everyone in a 6 foot area with oil and parts. Neither are fun at 100 mph.
Again I look at the bike as yet another piece of safety equipment.



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Mike Ruhe #52

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Re: broken camshaft cleaning an engine
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2018, 09:41:38 AM »

Short of doing a full tear down as ruhe mentioned i would at least remove the head and oil pan to inspect the oil passages. I'm not familiar with the inside of that motor at all but I have a good amount of experience building engines. I'd use a combination of fresh oil and compressed air for return passages. And if possible with that motor, I have been known to place a coffee cup with oil under the pickup and spin the oil pump drive gear with a drill.  And when reassembling, remember to follow the camshaft torque specs religiously. With a torque wrench, not an impact.
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jsnonzzr

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Re: broken camshaft cleaning an engine
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2018, 02:17:22 PM »

Short of doing a full tear down as ruhe mentioned i would at least remove the head and oil pan to inspect the oil passages. I'm not familiar with the inside of that motor at all but I have a good amount of experience building engines. I'd use a combination of fresh oil and compressed air for return passages. And if possible with that motor, I have been known to place a coffee cup with oil under the pickup and spin the oil pump drive gear with a drill.  And when reassembling, remember to follow the camshaft torque specs religiously. With a torque wrench, not an impact.

That's the "best part"  of all of this.  I was using a torque wrench when it snapped.  It was a 1/4 drive. And set at the right level (I want to say in the ball part of 110 in/lbs).  The only thing I can come up with talking with a friend is lateral stress from the cam chain.  But I cannot remember if I was tightening the cam cap or the secondary chain tensioner when it snapped to say if that's broke it exactly... but I do think it was the cam cap
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