Performance Riding Experience Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Slicks vs GPA's  (Read 6959 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Viffer

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
    • Max Speed Cycles
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2017, 08:23:15 AM »

Wow so many questions.  First the heat issue.  Think of all the control riders with you on the track going the same pace you are, and no traction issues whatsoever.  We are ALL running either slicks or race DOT's.  Second the 190 GPA's are made for a 5.50" - 6.0" rim.  Best rim 5.50".  That is 600 and 750's.  The tire is taller, it is a 60 series not a 55 and the profile is different than a street tire for better handling and more contact patch, (read traction).  The 190 slicks are made for the same size rims.  The 200 slick is made for a 5.50" - 6.25" rim best rim being a 6.0' rim.  That being said some guys (JRA and Dave Brown and others) prefer the 200 on their 750's.  Some guys prefer the 190.  Like John Allen said what works and feels good on your bike.  As far as the benefits to slicks of DOT race tires,  the stability, the feedback and the traction are superior to that of a street tire.  They last much longer as John Allen has mentioned and the feeling they give when they are going away is MUCH better than a street tire.  People say all the time, " well I'm not having any traction issues with my Q3's".  But with race tires the confidence the tire gives you allows you to push past what the Q3's will predictably do.  I have had this conversation a thousand times at the race track and in my shop and no one who has made the switch has ever come back and said "well I really can't tell any difference I wish I stayed with my Q3's".  The feedback is quite the opposite, it is more like, "why the hell did I wait so long to try these tires!  They are incredible!  Thanks for talking me into them!"  Prime example, guy at Road Atlanta was a Q3 die hard in the B group and did not feel he was having any traction issues at all and could not justify the added expense of the GPA Pro's, but I think on a whim he tried them not expecting any breakthrough.  He got bumped 2 sessions later.  He came back after the first session and said to me "  Wow, I did not realize the traction that I did not have with my Q3's.  I went faster in that session then I ever have around this track.  I never would have believed it.  ( Yes he had a lap timer not just seat of the pants.)  I know I have said a lot about these tires and you may think it is because I sell race tires.  I sell Q3's as well.  I bring them to the track to sell.  I say it because race tires really do make a difference.  By the way Rocket Dan I have 2 190 D211's left.  The last of the last.  No more after this.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 08:26:49 AM by Viffer »
Logged

JRA

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4258
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2017, 08:55:34 AM »

Here are a few points I'd like to make based on my experience running Dunlop's.

There isn't a huge difference in feel or grip between DOT's and slicks. You have a little more rubber on the tire with slicks, but the extra grip that provides is small for riders at a track day pace. I'd have to search for some evidence to back this up, but I bet the lap time difference from a top rider on a 600 would be pretty small. IMO tire compound will make a much bigger difference.

Slicks last longer than DOT's.

There is never any problem flipping slicks both front and rear.

Worrying too much about heat in the tires is over thinking it. In all but the coolest of conditions both slicks and DOT's are going to have more grip at any pace than than street tires. In other words if you are riding around on the track on a sunny day and the temperature is over 60 you will have more grip with race tires than you will with street tires, regardless of whether you are riding your fast pace, or ten seconds off of your fast pace. We aren't riding on Moto GP tires where just a small difference in temperature can mean a big difference in grip. If you slow down by ten seconds for a lap you are not going to crash because your tires cooled down. If you pay attention to what I say below about developing feel you'll understand what your level of grip is under almost all conditions.

Warmers are not required for race tires, but they are a good idea. The main reasons are that if you have to spend several laps getting them up to temp then you are wasting your track time. Also, depending on the track and temperature you could have tearing if you are on cold tires. For the most part heat cycles are not something you need to worry about at a track day.

I've never seen any need to run anything but medium on the front. It'll last so long that you'll be changing it out just because in your head you think you shouldn't be able to get ten days out of a front tire.

I have a little bit of a disagreement with Brad in that I think you should pick a tire, or at least a brand of tires, and stick with them so that you can learn them. We talk about grip, but there is also a "feel" that you need to come to understand. Feel is very subtle, and when you learn how to feel what a tire is telling you you'll know when you are approaching the limit of what you can get out of the tire. Notice I didn't say the tires limit, but but your own limit using that tire. Understanding what you are feeling is made more difficult if you are always running different tires.

One reason for switching to race tires besides the going faster part, is the margin of safety part. With more grip you have a bigger safety margin. A mistake that you can't recover from on street tires might be something that you can recover from on race tires. It's really very simple that the chance of suddenly losing all of that grip you have is less on a tire that has more grip.

I'm not sure if any of this helps or just muddies the water, but I think the absolute bottom line is that race tires are made for what we are doing on the track. They aren't necessary to ride at track days, but most of the time they are the best choice. If you can afford them use them.



« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 10:21:51 AM by JRA »
Logged
John Allen
Co-Founder/President
PRE Track Days
john dot allen at ridepre dot com

Viffer

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
    • Max Speed Cycles
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2017, 10:03:30 AM »

Well said Mr Allen.

Echs332000

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 141
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2017, 10:47:36 AM »

Looks like ill be switching to the dark side this offseason.  The wife is only allowing me one more track day this year.  apparently she wants to spend money on boring stuff(furniture, dishes, blah blah blah)  Ill stick with the rs10's for the ncbike track days and then ditch them for some slicks.


thanks for all of the input guys.


Jim, ill be calling you in a few weeks
Logged
2011 ZX10r
2007 R6
2014 ZX10r
I-Group

VIR IS THE DEVIL!

Viffer

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
    • Max Speed Cycles
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2017, 01:29:27 PM »

Glad everyone here could be of help and its not the dark side its the right side LOL.  We have plenty of tires just ring us up.

RocketDan

  • Control Rider
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1549
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2017, 05:58:52 PM »

.

I've never seen any need to run anything but medium on the front. It'll last so long that you'll be changing it out just because in your head you think you shouldn't be able to get ten days out of a front tire.




So if the Medium last so long I'm wondering if a soft front would add some additional grip and feel. But still last as long as I care to keep a tire.

Anyone with much experience with the soft front?


Daniel
OTP Racing #14
Yamaha R1
Wilmington, NC
Logged

cartmen34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 527
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2017, 09:19:06 PM »

So if the Medium last so long I'm wondering if a soft front would add some additional grip and feel. But still last as long as I care to keep a tire.

Anyone with much experience with the soft front?

I don't have much experience with a soft front... and I none of us are probably fast enough for this to really matter... but I'd always thought that having drastically different compounds would unbalance the bike at the edges of grip.

Again, even the fastest of us probably aren't fast enough to really have this type of problem... but it's the kind of B.S. that I over-think.  lol
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 08:52:05 AM by cartmen34 »
Logged

RocketDan

  • Control Rider
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1549
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2017, 03:50:03 AM »

Tracey if we aren't having paralysis by analysis then we aren't doing it right... LOL


Daniel
OTP Racing #14
Yamaha R1
Wilmington, NC
Logged

dbosch11

  • Newbie For Life!
  • Control Rider
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 594
  • GWC
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2017, 10:12:57 AM »

The only way for you to know for sure is to try them both out.

10 riders can tell you it's no different but if it feels different to you, who's to tell you what you're feeling?
Logged
d11b
10 r6

dbosch11

  • Newbie For Life!
  • Control Rider
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 594
  • GWC
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2017, 07:23:43 AM »

That being said I'll tell you to go Medium  :D
Logged
d11b
10 r6

RocketDan

  • Control Rider
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1549
Re: Slicks vs GPA's
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2017, 07:25:05 AM »

That being said I'll tell you to go Medium  :D

I'm thinking I should just stick with Med, Med and just ride. It works so why fix it :)


Daniel
OTP Racing #14
Yamaha R1
Wilmington, NC
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
 

Page created in 0.206 seconds with 23 queries.