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Author Topic: Starting racing in 2017?  (Read 16643 times)

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RocketDan

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2017, 08:42:39 AM »

Kevin, I can chime in on riding/racing a tiny bike and how it helped me.

As Tyson points out, riding a 250/300 you get used to being passed and passed close. This definitely helped me get more comfortable with handling the unexpected and not getting spooked.

For me the little bike was less intimidating and easier for me to make adjustments in line which gave me more confidence to adjust my lines to make passes. The racing gave me some different perspectives on things too. It helped me figure out how to measure up someone's weaknesses and using that to get past them.

 But to be honest, I wouldn't say the racing itself is what improved my riding. It was me dedicating the time to improve which meant I went to a lot more track days and got a lot more seat time.  Now I did all this to improve for the races, but ultimately it was just seat time that helped me.

Then i moved to a different bike which changed things so I think I'm back at square one... doh  LOL
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TGRIFF

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2017, 02:46:16 PM »

I knew you would chime in haha.  I passed you twice last year...  No need to mention that once was while your bike was having mechanical issues,  the other was in the paddock.  Hey I gotta take what I can get lol


Serious question for you though.  Do you feel confident and comfortable making passes on the 250? How did you get practice? At North,  pretty much all my passes come on the brakes in turn one or top of the roller coaster. But there's lots of places I feel I could pass but I am just really sure how to execute it.

I will preface this by saying any advice I give is from someone that is just as new at this as you are. I confident making passes on the 250,  as Dan mentioned, after a few laps you can get an idea of the areas on the track you have figured out a little better than the guy in front of you. The practice came from a few of the CRs looking out for me  and dragging me around for a few laps, I watch how they do it and the areas they do it in and I try to emulate.

Also I tried racing (1 weekend)  and it was fun. If you have the time and resources, I say go for it, then you can decide for yourself if you like it or not.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 02:50:08 PM by TGRIFF »
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bmart

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2017, 02:53:41 PM »

And I can say the same for my CB-1, which I still bring out once in a while, and the VTR250 I took to the track too. Like different bikes and riders, different size (and style) bikes have varying strengths and weaknesses. I'm not sure that racing will do more for your goal than more track time.

On the CB-1, it was all about carrying more speed and lining up a pass or putting myself in a place that a passing rider would have to really want to get by on the way into a curvy section (mid track entry at turn 1 at CMP or NHMS, for instance). And, of course, the brakes. The CB-1 has phenomenal brakes, even by today's standards. It was commonplace to get the front tire howling under braking and to be able to turn in on a dime, change lines mid corner, and comfortably and consistently scrape hard parts.

And while under-powered, even by the standards of the day at under 50 RWHP, it was heavy at 440#. The VTR250 had a huge weight advantage at 33#, but made under 30 HP...so I was never going to pass anyone on the gas...unless it was wet. :P

The SV is capable of incredible corner speed and lean angles. Consider how you would use those to pass at corner entry and corner exit...
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Brad in Charlotte, NC
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spiderman636

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2017, 03:17:37 PM »

I agree Brad.  Like Dan said was well,  seat time is probably what I need.  Well it Def is what I need.  My thought process was simply that racing might get more more time with bikes close by and working on passing that a track day so in theory I should improve that skill faster.

If I were a better rider I could probably get plenty practice.  For instance you on the 400 or peanut on his SV will still get to pass people (practice that skill) because you are a skilled and fast enough rider.

All valid points though.  This is likely one of my issues.  I want to improve and I want to work on everything immediately.  Haha
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RocketDan

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2017, 04:38:08 PM »

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not trying to talk you out of racing. The 6 or so races I participated in were a ton of fun. But those 60 laps themselves didn't really make me that much faster (though I would always go faster in the race). But it did give me motivation to improve my riding.

Track days will give you more seat time for the money which in theory is the easiest way to improve. But this hobby isn't really a rational one. So do what makes you happy. And chasing a carrot sometimes helps speed up the learning curve.
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RocketDan

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2017, 04:39:38 PM »

Keep in mind all of my "advice" is coming from a mediocre intermediate rider... LOL
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jbasim51

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2017, 04:36:21 PM »

That's true. I spend a ton of money. Upwards of 800 bucks a race weekend to ride a total of 30 laps. It's exciting but if you're looking to maximize your dollar per lap, it ain't racing!
Real talk and facts. $800 is probably close to an average number for club racing. The cost is not in registration as much as it is in tires (everyone else has new tires, you will want new ones every race too), camping, electric, the trackday before the event to get more practice for the race weekend, food, admission fees (not included with registration) and fuel to and from the track.........it never ends. And then you throw up in your helmet on the grid because you are nervous. Why is this addictive again?
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Joe "Dirt" Basim
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Steve Gould

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2017, 07:12:14 PM »

Joe, I didn't talley all of that stuff in! Just getting in to the track for the weekend costs us 150 dollars. Wera race fees and tranpoder rental are 400 or more. I run pump gas so fuel isn't a big deal. Then one set of tires. I'm at 950 dollars and I haven't even turned a wheel yet. God help you if you crash in practice and you want to get your bike back together.
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spiderman636

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2017, 07:13:49 PM »

What's a typical race fee? And what the hell is a transponder? I assume for lap timers.  This is mandatory?
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Steve Gould

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2017, 07:29:27 PM »

Here's the biggest downside of racing aside from th money. I had a great novice year in 14. Went Expert in 15. I ran toward the front of the expert pack, won a race and podiumed a couple times. 2016 starts with a new modern bike that I was sure to crush the competition with(so I'd hoped). Turns out I was slower on the new bike than I had been as a novice. Getting my ass kicked every weekend. The most soul crushing experience of my life. I quit riding motorcycles almost every weekend. It took taking a break from racing and focusing on riding with my friends and riding with PRE members to make it right again. I lost perspective on why I like to ride. 
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Steve Gould

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2017, 07:35:10 PM »

With Wera, if I remember right, sprint races are 100 bucks. Which are between 6 and 8 laps. If there are a bunch of crashes and they run short on time your races can get reduced to 4 laps. That's right, 25 bucks a lap.

You can buy a transponder, which is how they score races, for around 400 bucks. I only did a couple Wera rounds per season so I rented one for 80 a weekend. In hindsight I spent more on rentals but I was trying to minimize the initial cash outlay! And yes transponders are mandatory.
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spiderman636

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2017, 07:38:30 PM »

Considering how unbelievably competitive I am, it's shocking for me to say. For me,  it's not about the competition and I have zero desire to ever get bumped and race expert.  I truly just want to continue to hone my skills and be a fast,  safe and smooth track day guy. 

I love the SV.  Absolutely love it and am committed to it.  Like I told you before Steve,  I want to improve and I want to get to A group on my SV.  So I was thinking racing is just another forum to hone those skills.

I bet guys like you, spinak,  Wells Basim and the rest of the crew would be willing to give me a tow and show me some "race craft"
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spiderman636

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2017, 07:40:53 PM »

With Wera, if I remember right, sprint races are 100 bucks. Which are between 6 and 8 laps. If there are a bunch of crashes and they run short on time your races can get reduced to 4 laps. That's right, 25 bucks a lap.

You can buy a transponder, which is how they score races, for around 400 bucks. I only did a couple Wera rounds per season so I rented one for 80 a weekend. In hindsight I spent more on rentals but I was trying to minimize the initial cash outlay! And yes transponders are mandatory.
Wow. Thanks for that..  100 bucks for one race plus transponder rental?

Sheesh.  Had I just asked that question first I could've ended this thread.  No way I'd do that. Idk why but I assumed like 25 bucks a race.
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Steve Gould

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2017, 08:01:49 PM »

Kevin, of course we will tow you around!! That's exactly what we're here for. That's the perspective I lost and what I love doing, what all of us PRE staff love to do. We will pick a day when we can get some go pro vids and work on getting the fundamentals to be second nature. Which by the way, you were nailing at CMP.
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spiderman636

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Re: Starting racing in 2017?
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2017, 08:05:14 PM »

Kevin, of course we will tow you around!! That's exactly what we're here for. That's the perspective I lost and what I love doing, what all of us PRE staff love to do. We will pick a day when we can get some go pro vids and work on getting the fundamentals to be second nature. Which by the way, you were nailing at CMP.
Isn't that the worst? Felt like it all started coming together at the end of the season...  Then BAM... 5 months until next track day.  Im going crazy.  I literally watched Cameron beaubier video lap of North course on my phone yesterday while making motorcycle noises and pretending to lean and set up for corners lol
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